Jon Moxley (FKA Dean Ambrose) Certainly Makes It Sound Like The WWE Hasn't Changed A Bit Since CM Punk Left
Jon Moxley, formerly known to the world as the WWE’s Dean Ambrose, was Chris Jericho’s guest on ‘Talk Is Jericho’ this week, speaking out for the first time since walking away from a multi-million dollar World Wrestling Entertainment contract to play the field of professional wrestling, and wouldn’t you know it…the show sounded eerily similar to a life-after-McMahon tell all podcast from a few years back!
I didn’t find Moxley to sound quite as angry, or bitter as CM Punk was on that episode of “The Art of Wrestling w/ Colt Cabana”, but more just blunt about how things are and who’s to blame, and the answer to that question, more times than not, is Vince McMahon.
Below, I’ve tried to summarize the podcast as best I could with little bullet points, but I do encourage you giving it a listen. It’s truly fascinating stuff, albeit a lot of it being extremely depressing to hear as a wrestling fan.
-Moxley sits down, and immediately states, “Chris, my friend…it is time to talk.”
-Jon mentions that throughout the last five months, everyone seems to have been talking about him leaving WWE but he himself. Says he never asked WWE to put out that weird press release that said he was leaving, or mention it on commentary, or anything. He only made mention of it “at the end of a Michael Cole interview” for the sake of self preservation because he felt like he was getting set up.
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“Nothing but gratitude towards WWE. Nothing but positivity towards them. They changed my life. I got to live my dream.”
-Again, he ain’t bitter or angry whatsoever here. He’s just telling it like it is. He does joke that he’s about to bury them for two hours, though.
-Moxley knew he was 100% leaving the WWE in July of 2018 while he was out with an injury. He pauses Jericho here though, and says he’d like to tell a few stories that’ll give the listeners of this show a glimpse into “A Day In The Life Of Dean Ambrose”.
-Ambrose (fuck it, I’m gonna flip around with his names for the sake of anti-repetitiveness) makes it clear that he didn’t want to walk out or quit on bad terms due to his wife (Renee Young) still working there, his desire to keep getting royalties, and just because that’s not the kind of guy he is.
-He begins by telling a story where a writer handed him his script for a promo – a promo where Ambrose recapped everything he did on his way to the arena that day – and it was just full of complete and utter nonsense. Stuff like riding a unicycle backwards, sharing a pizza with a homeless man, etc. He told the writer he wasn’t saying any of that, and asked for a rewrite, before being told Vince wanted all of that stuff in. He went to Vince, and was just immediately told that the promo was “such great shit” and completely connected with his character and why people love him so much. When Ambrose asked Vince if his character was an idiot, Vince just chuckled and said, “It’s you! You’re…different!”
-Now, Moxley tells the story of the day he started counting down how much time he had left on his contract. He was assigned six brief pre-taped titantron promos and one in-ring promo on a RAW, and thought all of the material was garbage, so he started rewriting some of it with the writers. When they saw there was a HORRID “pooper-scooper” joke in one of the promos, Ambrose immediately refused to say it, and sent a new version of it to Vince. Vince then told Ambrose that he had to read his scripts verbatim. It was at that moment he realized that he and everyone else in the company were in self-preservation mode just to not sound/look stupid at all times, and couldn’t tell stories because of it.
-One of these previously mentioned promos happened to have a jab at Roman Reigns’ recent leukemia diagnosis in it, which made Ambrose immediately go to Vince, and question whether or not that should really be talked about in the angle, but the Chairman reassured him that it wasn’t that bad and that it needed to be in the script. Ambrose went forward with it, and says he regretted it the second the words came out of his mouth. He later had to convince Mr. McMahon to let him not wear a surgical mask – which would go on to become a hazmat suit – during the rest of his promos, and just had an overall night of complete physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion.
-Moving onto the day he thought he would walk out…Ambrose woke up to a text from a writer that laid out his plans for RAW that night, which were: he’d be getting rabies shots and shots of the like backstage to vaccinate himself from any diseases the “disgusting” fans may give him. When he showed up to television, Vince told him the promo was incredibly well written, assured him that it wasn’t meant as comedy, and said it’d get him a ton of heat. Ambrose then told him that if it’s this Vince wants on his show, that he was the best man for the job, and would – for lack of better terms – turn Vince’s chicken shit into chicken salad. For what it’s worth, I feel Ambrose pretty regularly did this during his time with the WWE. After the promo, he felt so physically sick and mentally depressed that he didn’t know if he’d recover.
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-Vince tried to get Ambrose to double down on references to Roman Reigns’ battle with leukemia, and allegedly tried to get Ambrose to say something so bad he wouldn’t even repeat it on this podcast, but he refused. Says somebody would’ve absolutely had to have gotten fired over it if he had said it on television, and that somebody might’ve been him. He believes the WWE could’ve lost sponsors over it as well.
“They take wrestling away from you.”
-That above line just really stuck with me. Moxley says wrestling was his first love, and only love (besides Renee), and that he feels now he’s gotten it back, because the WWE took it from him.
-Ambrose says that after The Shield broke up, the WWE never had any plans for him. If he’d petered out after the feud with Seth, they would have been fine with that.
-Babyface Dean Ambrose was originally based 90% on John McClane from ‘Die Hard’, and 10% on Dusty Rhodes, Bret Hart, and “big Japan deathmatch guys”. I assume this means the Cactus Jacks, the Terry Funks, the Stan Hansens, etc. Found that little tidbit to be very interesting.
-Says he made a mistake by showing the WWE that he was capable of comedic timing, because they tried to make it his bread and butter after that. If you listened to From The Top Rope back in the day, I beat this drum allllllll the time. Definitely felt vindicated as hell hearing him say this.
-Compares he and Vince creatively to Diet Coke and Mentos.
-Ambrose loved being apart of the Make-A-Wish program, and took it very seriously. He’s proud of that, as he should be.
-During his injury rehab, Dean would watch concerts – he actually mentions a few great ones: Queen at Live Aid, Woodstock 99, The Killers at Royal Albert Hall – and it would make him upset seeing the creative freedom the musicians had while performing, because he felt so shackled at the time.
-Dean flew himself out to Stamford to meet with Vince McMahon months before his return, and made it clear that he had hated his character for a while, and wanted to start fresh as a heel. Instead, he returned as the “Good Ol’ Lunatic Fringe” and came to the aid of Seth Rollins at SummerSlam, which he found to just be more of the same.
“They ruin EVERYTHING.”
-Moxley mentions that if there were no other wrestling promotions and no other wrestlers in the world, he would have still left WWE. Makes it clear that his decision wasn’t made or even influenced by AEW’s rise at all. He said he would’ve started his own training school and promotion if he had to. He just wanted to get away from the WWE.
-Jon informed the WWE he would not be renewing his contract at the RAW after the Royal Rumble. Immediately afterwards, they had him bumping for Nia Jax, and while he didn’t take issue with it, he felt it was a punishment.
-Vince pretty much acted flabbergasted by the news of Ambrose being unhappy although Dean implicates that it’d be impossible for him to actually be surprised, being he was in Vince’s office every week for revisions or complaints about his material. Ambrose says he told Vince that he got a sick feeling in his stomach every Monday morning, just knowing he’d have to somehow preserver another week and navigate though not looking like an idiot on television again.
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-Ambrose thought the press release they put out was super bizarre, and he didn’t understand the motivation behind it, but he was okay with it. Called it a “glowing review”.
-Moxley says Vince McMahon pays Brock Lesnar “billions of dollars” to ruin his company because he’s got a millionaire’s complex and loves “owning” him.
-Dean Ambrose legitimately did not even look at the WWE’s contract offer to him when he decided to walk out. He said no amount of zeros could’ve changed his mind, and I believe him. I truly do. Honestly, how couldn’t you, after what we’ve seen him do?
-Says he was WebMD-ing “depression” towards the end of his run because he was so upset, unhappy, and unmotivated. Didn’t wanna get out of bed. Yep! Sounds like depression, Dean!
-Looking back now, Jon says he’s surprised he lasted so long in the WWE. He actually sounds legitimately grateful for his time spent there, when he looks back, but it’s clear he’s looking forward to being a difference maker in AEW.
-More than anything, he says he wants to prove, “The WWE’s creative process sucks. It does not work. It’s absolutely terrible. It’s killing the company, and Vince is the problem.”
-Jericho and Moxley both agree that the micromanaging in the WWE is the worst part of the job.
-EC3 (who Moxley likes, and calls a great talent and great friend), beat him in about two minutes on a RAW following the WWE’s press release that said Ambrose was on his way out, and fans hated it. Vince apparently freaked out when he heard the fans hated it, and his solution to the issue of Ambrose getting over on his way out was having him and Seth Rollins flip heel/face roles for a single promo. What a weird guy.
-Vince had Ambrose go through a bunch of tables and work a bunch of stupid gimmicks on his way out.
-Dean Ambrose got paid $500 for the last show he ever did – the WWE Network Special centered around The Shield’s final match. It’s the bare minimum they could’ve paid him. That’s what they give extras. PETTINESS OFF THE CHARTS FROM VINNY MAC!
-Moxley says he and Cody have been friends forever, and that they’ve bonded over their genuine love of wrestling. Adds that they’ve both shared the same form of depression over being creatively deprived, and that he feels they are two sides of the same coin.
-Moxley hopes the WWE steps it up if AEW forces them to, because that’d be best for everybody. Wants Renee Young, his friends there, the fans, and everybody to be happy.
-Can’t wait to face new opponents, and challenge himself with new styles and “some bucket-list shit”.
-Calls Tony Khan the “exact opposite of Vince”, likes him because he’s a big wrestling fan and understands how the business works. Says you could sit there and talk to Tony about random ECW pay-per-views from the 90s, and notes that he’s definitely a bigger wrestling fan than Vince.
-Moxley’s return teaser was inspired by the ‘Venom’ teaser trailer.
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-“Sick” Nick Mondo, a former deathmatch wrestler, was actually the filmmaker behind the Moxley return teaser! If you don’t know Mondo…he’s an indie wrestling legend.
-Jon paid about $8,000 for the two straight days of shooting altogether, but he considers it all well worth it.
-Vince called him while he was shooting the Moxley return promo asking him to extend his contract for the WWE’s 2019 European Tour, as a personal favor. Mox quickly declined.
-Ambrose is almost adorably fascinated with the idea of scheduled tweets. Clarifies multiple times that his return promo tweet went up while he was on stage presenting an award for something, not while he was using Twitter.
-Moxley says Roman and Seth were cool and very understanding about him leaving. He told them he’s a wild animal who has been domesticated for too long and they got it.
-Nick Mondo and Moxley are toying with the idea of doing a feature length action movie in which Moxley would star and Mondo would direct.
-AEW and Moxley didn’t even discuss money before he made up his mind. Says from now on, he’s done thinking about money. Everything he’s gonna do in the future is about having fun.
-Ambrose sounds stoked about building AEW and being able to bring eyeballs to the product. Jericho and him talked a ton about being live television vets who will be able to show the new generation a few tricks of the trade. Jokingly ends the podcast screaming, “WE’RE GOING TO WAR!”
As I said earlier, it’s a really fascinating (but frustrating) listen, so I do recommend it. More than anything, it brought out the Jon Moxley fan in me and excited me for his future.