Random Thoughts

I will now watch the Celtics.

Lots to debate on this one including whether this is the reason they made the deal. Just for the sake of making a deal and creating a buzz and keeping their jobs.

i'm drinking the kool-aid also. Green 17 haha

Makes no sense at all!!!!!

no debate pres. We got a superstar to complement Pierce, and didn't have to give up Al Jefferson.

I'll say this much. I like this deal WAY more than the Garnett deal. Jefferson, Pierce and Allen are a pretty good threesome. Losing Delonte kind of hurts but hopefully Rondo, Green and Tony Allen will pick up those minutes.

Dale and Holly were saying they wouldn't make this deal. I think they're nuts. If Ray Allen was available at #5 you'd take him in a heart beat right?

great now we have 2 paul pierces instead of 1...man i hope it doesn't happen

Yeah, Joel, how would you like to defend 2 paul pierces.

I like it Hung Daddy. I'm a big Ray Allen fan. And I think we can afford to lose Delonte. But I did like Corey Brewer alot. But we know what you're getting with Ray Allen.

Having said all that I feel like the Celts were going to make a deal no matter what to save their asses. Luckily I like this deal.

delonte is a bum, good riddance

The biggest fan of this deal is Kevin Durant.

EP and Joel, I totally agree with you. Aren't Pierce and Allen basically the same player? Sure Pierce has a bigger body and Allen comes off screen more, but both average about 22-24 points a game (good) but they are inefficient points. And they play very similar positions. And sure, when they are "on", either can easily go for 40 on any given night, but at a FG % at no more than 45%, how often will that be. I'm not sure how this would work for the Celtics.

PS - Seattle is going to be nasty. I love Jeff Green

I just jizzed all over the place.

two high priced aging superstars on a team that still are a long way away from winning anything? who cares about guarding these guys, i am more worried about winning. before they made this deal, they had a young nucleus with a superstar. now they have another aging superstar and one less young building block.

seattle made out like a bandit in this draft by getting to great young players.

I like the deal

Fuck this deal. hes 32 and owed 75 mil over 4 years. Corey brewer would have been just as good in 2 years. Stupid ainge.

I like the deal. But this was more about selling tickets than winning a championship for sure.

you are all ignoring the fact that he wouldn't have taken Corey Brewer. I like Ray Allen way more then Li YianJinLee

Horrendous deal...This deal seals the fate of Doc and Ainge...Both will be gone after this season for sure!

You guys can't be serious. He's 32 years old, and this is the 4th time in the last 3 years that Danny Ainge has changed his strategy.

Ray Allen has averaged almost 40 minutes over his career and has missed time 2 of the last 3 years.

The Celtics just ensured another 5 years of mediocrity.

Oh and instead of worrying about who's going to guard Pierce and Allen, the C's should worry about who they're going to guard.

"two high priced aging superstars on a team that still are a long way away from winning anything? who cares about guarding these guys, i am more worried about winning. before they made this deal, they had a young nucleus with a superstar. now they have another aging superstar and one less young building block.

seattle made out like a bandit in this draft by getting to great young players." -Joel

What are you talking about? West sucks and Sczerkbiack was radically overpayed. They still have young talent in Al Jefferson and Gerald Green. By the time Pierce and Allen go, Jefferson will have matured and the team can be built around him. This was a great trade.

did you just hear the boos yi just got?

I think its huge that they can steal deal Ratliffs contract off at the deadline..thats huge! and they still have jefferson.

Delonte was a 6th man on a good team

Wally is always hurt.

Pierce has what he wants too.

Ben listen to urself. Waiting for Green and Big Al to mature. Then why not just draft a player and by the time Green develops this pick would have developed. U make no sense man

still* deal

Because selling tickets is an important part of strategy. Increases in revenue allow more money to be spent on better players. Drafting a guy and then just sitting through years of mediocrity and falling ticket sales is a strategy for failure, because by the time he developed the market would have disappeared and would have to be rebuilt completely. Finance cannot simply be ignored, if you aren't selling tickets/merchandise, you don't have the money to get successful. Allen is going to help us win games in the here and now AND is going to make us the money we will need to build an even better team around Jefferson.

P.S: Allen is likely going to more than pay for himself via renewed interest and playoff appearances, btw.

I look forward to listening Steven A Smith rip the celtics. Listening to him shit on isiah thomas last year was the highlight

Ben, you realize there is a salary cap in the NBA right?

GAZ he basically just said the Cs made a terrible decision and it wasnt even worth his time to talk about them right now lol

Yes. I'm not sure what you are suggesting, that the salary cap makes revenue irrelevant or something?

Ben I'd enjoy hearing how poor revenue streams have hampered the Celtics the last few years.

"I have never seen anyone become so famous for just talking really loudly"

-my roomate about Stephen A. Smith

Danny Ainge please step in front of the shot gun. click click
BOOM! Thanks Danny. Red Auerbach will torture you now. Dumbass!

"Ben I'd enjoy hearing how poor revenue streams have hampered the Celtics the last few years." -PatriotsNation

What? Thats not what I said. I said that they can't continue to lose games and then expect to be able to sign players, because revenue will *become* an issue is they stay bottom of the barrel much longer, not that it is an issue now. Allen is going to help win games, give Jefferson time to mature, and he is going to pay for himself with increases in revenue. Meanwhile, what did they give up? A useless number five pick, one awful player, and one radically overplayed player.

Also, think about Al Jefferson, do you think he is going to want to stay in Boston much longer if they continue to absolutely blow? He knows other teams would be interested in him, he could agitate for a trade. You can't just sit back and wait to win at some point in the future, you have to win in the here and now as well. Long term strategy should obviously not be sacrificed for short term knee-jerk moves (and I know Ainge does a lot of that) but I don't think this is an example of it.

overpaid* not overplayed, typo.

Would've rather have had the Chinese Godzilla that Minnesota took. The Chinese tourists would've filled those empty seats
at the Garden.

a fan base is built over the long term (and make no mistake, the Celtics fanbase needs rebuilding)not by gimmicks like "Hey look an Asian playing basketball!", imo.

You guys are nuts, this trade is a very good job by Ainge. Another scorer, out from Wally's contract, Delonte is a bench player at best, and Allen has at least 3-4 solid years to play. Pierce, Jefferson, and Allen form a very good lineup and we still have assets to deal, Green and Theo's expiring contract.

Chip those drycleaning businesses dont make enough money to pull Celts tix

I like the pick...what the fuck- why not? theyre not going anywhere anyway. 2 all stars and a potential all star in Big Al...for 3 years? Allen scored what- 26 points a game? That wont help? Fuck it, Ray Allen > Jeff Green. Wally is injured all the time, Delonte plays Allen's position anyway.

Hey has Hazel Mae slept with the Bruins #1 rookie draft pick yet?
Just curious.

WTF was joakim wearing???

Ben what are you talking about? Stop talking about revenue. Increased revenue does nothing more than lining the pockets of owners. NBA salarys are basically slated. Its not baseball, or even football with the soft-money that is spent by teams.

1. 5 pick isn't useless in one of the deepest drafts in a long time. Corey Brewer, the next Scottie Pippen type player will turn out to be a VERY solid pro. And one that could mature along side Jefferson and Green.

2. If the C's hold on to Wally and continue to suck, then his contract comes off their books the same time that Jefferson needs to be extended, that's far more important than Allen "allowing Jefferson to develop."
The C's just added a good player, sure, but they also added years in his contract.

3. Why are you people acting as if the Celtics are one or two players away??? You're all this pumped that they made a trade, extended years, lost future flexibility - to become a what, 5 seed at BEST????

Brock you forgot those chinese food guys. combined with the drycleaners I dunno...

1. Danny Ainge wasn't going to draft Corey Brewer

2. Wally Szerbiak Sucks, Ray Allen is good

3. I'd rather see the Celtics in the playoffs then not in the playoffs.

HD-you better hope they sign a big FA then. Your grandkids kids wont see the Celtics in the playoffs.

Hung so because Ainge is a dumbass, that makes it ok?

Would you rather be the NJ Nets of today or the Chicago Bulls of today?

The Bulls are young, peaking together and playing together. The Nets are old, have two guards who have no ability to figure out who should take the final shot in the last few minutes, and know that they have a year left to be mediocre then its all over.

Congrats, the Celtics are the Nets of last year and this year....for the next 4 years.

"5 pick isn't useless in one of the deepest drafts in a long time. Corey Brewer, the next Scottie Pippen type player will turn out to be a VERY solid pro. And one that could mature along side Jefferson and Green." -PatriotsNation

Irrelevant, Cory Brewer was not going to be drafted to Boston.

"If the C's hold on to Wally and continue to suck, then his contract comes off their books the same time that Jefferson needs to be extended, that's far more important than Allen "allowing Jefferson to develop."
The C's just added a good player, sure, but they also added years in his contract." -PatriotsNation

First money is no object, now its of crucial importance. Guess I am confused.

Once again, Allen will pay for himself with increased interest in the team, which will mean increased revenue.

"Why are you people acting as if the Celtics are one or two players away??? You're all this pumped that they made a trade, extended years, lost future flexibility - to become a what, 5 seed at BEST????" -PatriotsNation

They did not lose future flexibility, they lost a shitty player and an overpaid one, and barring drafting Brewer (they weren't going to) they lost a useless pick.

In other news tonight, I had a great fantasy football draft:

QB: McNabb (Romo)
RB: LJ (Jacobs, F Taylor)
RB: Bush
WR: Owens (Cotchery, Holmes)
WR: Evans
WR: Coles
TE: Cooley
K: Elam
DEF: Chargers (Broncos)

Who's ready for the '07 Pats and football?

HAHAHAHAHA! The Celtics are a disaster!

Who the fuck has a fantasy football draft in June?

All right, I have to be honest. I fucking hate NBA basketball. But I'm a huge UConn basketball fan, and maybe with Ray Allen here I'll actually pay attention to Celtics basketball. So that's why I'm excited. I've only been arguing cause I'm procrastinating doing work.

From what little I do know, waiting for prospects to pan out can take a long long time. It doesn't always play out the way you want it to. And I know that the one big player that this time wants to build around is Al Jefferson, not Delonte West and Yi JianLee(not Corey Brewer, because they wouldn't have drafter Corey Brewer). This trade keeps Paul Pierce happy and they didn't have to give up Al Jefferson. Plus, I agree with whoever said Pierce and Allen will make the Celtics sweet in NBA live '98.

team, not time

T- Obviously every Celetics season ticket holder.

Ben you got one thing right. You are confused.

Here's how the salary cap works in the NBA in layman's terms:

You only have a certain amount of money to spend on a team REGARDLESS OF REVENUE. The Celtics ownership will never spend so much that they pay the luxury tax.

Thus, they have a hard cap.

So even if they make a bazillion gazillion dollars, when it comes to extending Al Jefferson to a max contract, having Ray Allen on the books will not allow them (potentially) to do so. Especially with Paul Pierce on the payroll as well.

That is why it has nothing to do with revenue, and everything to do with available money inside the cap.

By the time they are rebuilding the team around Jefferon, Pierce will probably be gone, and theres a good chance Allen will be. You're grasping at straws now.

Ben I'm not grasping at straws, I'm grasping at helmets so you can put yours back on.

Al Jefferson's contract is up before Pierce OR Allen's contract is. Thus, having those two on the roster, potentially prevents the Celtics from max-ing out Jefferson.

So in essence, there may not be an opportunity to actually build around Jefferson.

Oh and I'll choose to ignore your "plan" to still be "rebuilding" 4 years from now...b/c that would mean nearly 10 years of "rebuilding."

This is hilarious. You realize that with your alternative, Paul Pierce is gone after next season, at the longest? Then what do you do? Rebuild around Jefferson and the non-existant Cory Brewer, who was not being drafted, period? You seem to forget that the best plan is the one to which all alternatives are worse.

Since you have decided that we should just totally disregard reality and postulate a plan where we draft Brewer (wouldn't have happened) and keep Pierce (would have demanded a trade) maybe we should have just traded the #5 pick for Lebron and sent West to LA in exchange for Kobe.

No but please, let's completely sacrifice the present so we can, later on down the road "max out" on a player who MIGHT (probably won't) develop into a top tier star. Brilliant stratagem.

Hey numb-nuts, so the guy that you want to "Rebuild around" now "probably won't" develop into a top tier star?

Paul Pierce "demanding a trade" means what, exactly? Is he going to not play? is he going to not show up?

Its clear to me that you're completely clueless so I am finished beating my head against the wall.

Go to bed, kid.

And how can you simply disregard Corey Brewer "because Ainge wasn't going to draft him?"

Should Portland fans ignore Jordan because "Portland wasn't going to draft him, they were going to draft Sam Bowie?"

Actually yes, players demanding to be traded often refuse to play. Sorry, I was unaware that you had never watched professional sports before.

So now your master plan for the Celtics is rebuilt around Corey Brewer, who you admit they would not have drafted. Glad to see that wishes and dreams are your idea of NBA strategy.

Regarding Jefferson, he is a second tier star, he is not a Lebron or a Kobe, no. Yes, it would be nice to rebuilt around him, because we have him.

Either you are arguing dishonestly because you don't want to admit being wrong or you're really fucking dumb.

Now we trade Paul Pierce for Kevin Garnett

duh!

This is hilarious...bottom line, the Celts added Ray Allen and gave up youth. Does anyone out there think that Ray Allen is the missing piece of the puzzle? Does anyone think that they are one player (non-superstar) away? How does Ray Allen help this team? How do Danny, Larry, and Kevin still have their jobs? Someone give the Chief a team, maybe they will make the playoffs!

Ben what the fuck are you talking about? You kept telling me that this deal was good b/c it allowed the Celtics to stay competitive for the next few years until Jefferson was ready to be "the man" and have a team built around him, now you're telling me that he's not good enough.

Who is building around Corey Brewer? Corey Brewer is a young player who could be a very solid role guy - just like he was on a team that happened to win two national titles.

Tell me of an NBA player who "held out" to get traded other than the commitably insane Ron Artest.

I said he was a future all-star. I also said that he was not a top tier (Kobe/Lebron level) player. Those two statements do not contradict each other.

The Celtics weren't drafting Brewer, so how good he is is irrelevant, having him come to Boston was not a viable option.

Ben, still waiting for the list of NBA hold-outs after demanding a trade and not getting it.

Ben, don't fall down when you backpeddal. can he be built around or not? If so, this deal sucked. If not, this deal sucked even more.

Yes, he can be built around, and I never said otherwise, you know full well that you are deliberately lying. That is not the same as saying he is a top tier star. I would hope for your sake that you have been diagnosed with a mental handicap of some kind, because there is no other excuse for acting like such a retard.

Regarding your "list" I have neither the time nor inclination to look up as list of NBA stars who held out. If you want to make the hilariously inaccurate assertion that Paul Pierce would have stuck around on the Celtics if we had drafted, go ahead and make it.

So then, here is PatriotsNation strategy for rebuilding the Celtics:

1.) Cast a magical spell to make Ainge draft Brewer

2.) Fuck over Paul Pierce but bank on your ability to do anything with an unhappy player as your team's centerpiece.

3.) ???

4.) Profit

Ben, I love the "no time nor inclination" to type something into google excuse. Yet you have all the time in the world to argue with what is basically a bunch of letters on a television screen.

Don't think for a second that Brewer is the ONLY guy in this draft that could've helped the Celtics. Thorton, Law IV, and Jeff Green would all be contributing players on this team.

Now, Gerald Green becomes Kedrick Brown, they get no younger, get worse defensively (if that's possible), and may have given themselves an opportunity to finish 7th in the East, with zero opportunity to ever win a lottery.

Ah, so he finally reveals his strategy, "play terribly, hope to win the lottery".

Thanks, that worked out so well this time around, after all. I am writing a paper for a class and refuting this bullshit in between sentences, I'm not running a research project for you.

Do you have an answer for pissing off Pierce or not? Do you have an answer for whether just hoping to "max out" on Jefferson without any supporting cast is a good idea or not? You have been dodging your assertions all night. Either support or retract or I have no more time for you.

Who's the supporting cast when Allen/Pierce are done? Delonte West would've been a decent role player, no? And maybe a player with the #5.

Show me where I say "tank and win the lottery."

Yeah my answer to "pissing Pierce off" is this:

"See this 15 million dollar check? You don't get it if you don't play."

You see, only Ron Artest is crazy enough to give that up.

That wasn't the question, do you or do you not have an answer for how we will win with an actively unhappy player as the centerpiece of the team?

"may have given themselves an opportunity to finish 7th in the East, with zero opportunity to ever win a lottery." -You suggesting that hoping to place in the lottery is the strategy to go with. Support or retract, please, I am tired of this.

Delonte West is bad and he wasn't getting better at any appreciable rate. Hoping he would be a decent role player by the time Jefferson could be made the team's centerpiece is not a strategy.

Ben anytime you want to get into the double-ankle surgery that Allen just went through, you just let me know.

Bone spurs never come back, right?

And guys who have surgery on somethign are always the same afterwards too.

What about the injury? Even with it, Allen had the best scoring season of his career last year.

I mean do you really think Paul Pierce who's never really been known as a "bad guy" is going to be that unhappy making millions in a city that he is revered in?

Unless you know Paul Pierce personally, stop asking this question.

Do you believe everything you read?

here's what the deal is with the NBA just so you know. If you don't have a top 10 player, you don't win. The only way you get a top 10 player is to win the lottery. Thus, losing is actually better (in teh long run) than being constantly mediocre.

I bet you can't wait for the 1 vs 8 series next year!!

Are you or are you not asserting that the best strategy is to lose as much as possible? Please be clear.

Secondly, yes I think Pierce would be unhappy if he demanded something and the organization gave him a big "fuck you".

Ben, most points of his career? Ok.

- Most shots in his career.
- 3rd Lowest FG % in his career.
- 3rd lowest 3 pt FG % in his career.

do you think he gets 21 shots with the Celtics?

"Statistically, it was the seven-time All-Star's finest season scoring, averaging 26.4 points per game, including a career-best 54-point performance against Utah in January."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2920183

Ben the best strategy is to pick on and go with it.

Not to go young, then veteran, then young, then veteran all in a 3 year span.

That's what not to do. Chicago is VERY close to contending with a young nucleus by choosing a plan and sticking with it. That's how you win without lucking out in the year that the top guy is a stud (spurs/Duncan).

I can't argue about Paul Pierce with you. You think he would basically not play well b/c he was angry. Most angry players typically play w/a chip on their shoulder. That's not a bad thing.

But agree to disagree on the effect using the pick at 5 would've had on Pierce. none of us know.

Ben I told you it was his top scoring season.

I also told you it was the most shots he ever took, and one of the worst percentages of his career.

Ask Nomar how easy it is to come back from surgery.

I am not defending the history of Ainge's management of the team. The question was what to do at that moment with the resources we had. And getting Allen was the best option available at the time.

Ben I disagree. You decided to go young last year. Stick with it. If he's that unhappy, trade Paul Pierce when his value is at least somewhat high and go completely young.

Wow, you guys are going nuts. To put my five cents in and support Ben-T really quickly, I am going to go after this quote:

"here's what the deal is with the NBA just so you know. If you don't have a top 10 player, you don't win. The only way you get a top 10 player is to win the lottery. Thus, losing is actually better (in teh long run) than being constantly mediocre."

Do you get sports illustrated. If so, go to page 28 of this weeks SI. If not, I will paraphrase. In the last 20 years, only 2 first round draft picks have won championships. Coincidently, they were Tim Duncan and David Robinson, and David Robinson never won a championship without Tim Duncan. Also, 5 of those 20 #1 draft picks have never made the NBA finals, and another 7 have never won a playoff series. Even if we get the #1 draft pick one of these years, it doesn't mean shit.

I meant # 1 overall draft pick. sorry

Glen Davis is available. TAKE HIM!

Show me where I said they need the #1 pick to win a championship.

You need a top 10 player to win one. Show me a team other than Detroit that won w/o a top 10 player.

The C's have no top 10 players.

Finishing out of the lottery every year to be fodder for the 1 or 2 seed ensures that you'll never get that player.

I interpreted "winning the lottery" as getting the #1 pick. I must have misunderstood.

Hung the only way you eventually get a top 10 player is to "win the lottery" in a year like this one, or you go to the lottery 3, 4, 5 years in a row and draft/develop well.

The C's do none of this.

Holy shit has anyone watched basketball here before? This trade was an obvious no brainer. The C's get a guy that can stroke it from 3, not to mention a healthy pierce next year. One player in the NBA makes a HUGE difference.

yeah lets sit back and watch jefferson become the present day KG; a great player with NO ONE else.

Previous years #5's

2006- Shelden williams
2005- raymond felton
2004- devin harris
2003- dwayne wade
2002- Nicholae thsiniovoeuiole
2001- jay richardson
2000- mike miller